Sunday, January 6, 2008

SAM Test and Training Ranges in Russia and China



Kobus said...

According to Jane's Defence you've found an KS-1A Sam site near Kunming (China) Map
Great job.

Anonymous said...

Liuyuan is not a active sam training range.

Another sam training range except Shandan is Changli in Hebei province: N39 31 35 E119 12 33.

The formal name of KS1-A in PLAAF is HQ12. You can also find two more sites at Shantou(clse to the airbase) and Guangzhou(North to Baiyun airport).

Sean O'Connor said...

Liuyuan certainly appears to be active in the available imagery.

The Shantou site is an HQ-2 site, but it appears that there may now be KS-1A components there.

No clue what Guangzhou site you're referring to, all the sites I have near there are still HQ-2 sites.

Anonymous said...

Well, i don't have any evidence to show that Liuyuan is not a sam training range. But from my knowledge, there is never a sam training range established in this area.

Regarding the HQ-12 sites, notice the bigger launch position at N23 27 13 E116 43 08(Occupied by HQ12 already), and at N23 30 44 N113 16 36(Still waiting for HQ12 equipments. That's why they established a mini HQ2 battery beside the main battery----battery conversion has finished, but the new equipment hasn't arrived. Same situation appears at the HQ-9 site near Nanjing, S300PMU1/2 sites near Xiamen and near Lvshun ).

Here i have two more unique-type sites for you: A HQ-7 site at N39 59 50 E117 03 40-----It looks like a old HQ-2 site, but this battalion equips HQ-7; Another one is a HQ-6 site at N30 30 09 E104 18 13. HQ6 is new generation short-range SAM instead of HQ-7.

And, some HQ-2 sites you haven't mentioned:
N30 52 13 E114 26 22
N34 44 25 E108 03 23
N37 46 13 E120 47 41
N38 46 59 E117 00 18
N40 21 33 E116 21 08
N40 57 16 E117 57 18
N42 04 19 E121 44 00

You did really nice job! Good luck!

Sean O'Connor said...

I'll add the new sites you noted to my SAM database file this weekend, thanks for the locations!

Regarding Liuyuan, look at these coordinates:

40°53'29.49"N 95°18'45.40"E

That "site" (meaning the two apparent HQ-2 launch positions) is nearly identical to the HQ-2 positions at Changli and Shandan, giving credibility to the labeling of this area as a SAM training location. Liuyuan seems to be far more spartan in terms of arrangement, which would make it more likely to be an area where a SAM unit coulf field deploy in more austere conditions rather than at one of the other ranges.

The HQ-2 site near Guangzhou may well re-equip with the KS-1A in the future, but what I'd expect to see is for the site to be remodeled along the lines of the site I found in the first place. I had an old screen capture of the HQ-2 site in southeast Shanghai, which has subsequently been resurfaced into an S-300PMU-1 site before it re-equipped. This seems to be common practice, I've noted a number of sites where the HQ-2 equipment is also off to the side somewhere as the site is being redone into one format or another. So for now, I'll leave that one as an HQ-2 site as the layout is still HQ-2, and the HQ-2 equipment is still present, but I've tagged it for re-examination if and when the imagery changes to see if anything new develops.

Sean O'Connor said...

Also, HQ-6? What system is that? According to Jane's, HQ-6 was the original variant of the HQ-61, which isn't a new or advanced system at this point in time. Are you perhaps referring to the LY-60/HQ-11?

Anonymous said...

Ok, after checking that area again, i believed that could be a training range for short-range missles like DF-11/15 of 2nd artilllery. It is about 150km(a reasonable distance) away from the missle target area at N40 29 19 E93 30 01.

The reason i insist that it is not a SAM training range is that there is no such range estalished in that area in PLA's history. I positively trust this opinion.

Currently the two active SAM training ranges is Shandan and Changli. And, a abandoned training range can be found at N36 49 05 E100 45 49 near Qinghai Lake.

HQ-6(Another name is HQ-64) is a new/advanced version of the LY-60. Check the two HQ-2 sits near Changdu later-----------the two sites might be converted to HQ-6 sites too.

And, the other three HQ-2 sites around Guangzhou will be converted to HQ-12 sites; the two HQ-2 sites at north-coast side of Yangtse rive near Nanjing and all HQ-2 sites currently appear in Shanxi province will be converted to HQ-9 sites. Check those sites later.

HQ-61 is HQ-61. It is never given a name "HQ-6".

Regarding the HQ-2 site in southeast Shanghai, actually it was converted to S300PMU1 site at same time along with the other three S300PMU1 sites around Shanghai when China received 3rd-batch S300 SAM system(total 4 sets) on 2003~2004. Remodeling of that site shown up later that the other three sites just because GE did't update images of all areas simultaneously.